00:00We go out to the wise heart, right?
00:01We make it right.
00:02Call Kyle, right?
00:03Hotline, Nick shook NFL.com Cleveland native.
00:06And somebody that I, early on, we highlighted for not having much belief in this Browns.
00:10I want to see if that's changed after a three in one start.
00:13I would hope it would.
00:13Hello, Nick.
00:14How are you doing today?
00:16Fantastic guys.
00:17Thanks for having me on.
00:17You had made Nick Wilson's list of people that he was going to call personally.
00:21If, if slash when the Browns win eight games, but that was like three weeks ago, Nick, how
00:26much has changed in your opinion of this Browns team now?
00:30And yet he's not here to hold.
00:32I know.
00:32I know he would have loved this.
00:34He would have absolutely loved this moment.
00:37Uh, classic.
00:38Um, what I think of the Browns, I'm, I'm, you know, I'm, I'm pretty impressed.
00:41I'm impressed by, um, what they've achieved over the last few weeks, last week's last
00:46that's when different in style than the previous to not needing a fourth quarter comeback to
00:51get it done.
00:51I mean, technically, yes, but not really.
00:53They built that lead in the first half came out with an offensive game plan that, that
00:57worked really well against Patrick Graham's defense, the Steelers.
01:00And, um, they look like a competent team.
01:03And I think, you know, as Andrew Barry has tried to rebuild this roster over the last
01:08few years and has clearly hit on two strong, very strong, uh, draft classes in his last
01:13two, the big question mark was of course, quarterback.
01:16And yeah, you're getting the best performance from Deshaun Watson since he was a Houston
01:21Texan.
01:21I mean, did it take six years?
01:23Yeah.
01:23But, uh, you know, the last few weeks have been nice for the Browns, uh, to see a quarterback
01:27who seems to be getting better, you know, I mean, not it's incrementally, it's not huge
01:33strides, but he's, he's getting better with every week that he plays.
01:36Um, and I think, uh, Munkin is a good pairing for him.
01:39So I'm not going to like, you know, say that they're going to make the playoffs and all
01:43that good stuff, but yet, yet, but they're in the mix.
01:48They're definitely in the mix and they're, uh, they're an entertaining team to watch right
01:50now.
01:51Nick, there has been a little bit of conversation on the station already today, just about if
01:56this continues for Deshaun Watson, what the future for him in Cleveland could look like.
02:01Everybody thinks to the new league year, that's probably when they release them and finally
02:06get out, uh, from underneath this big contract.
02:08But is there a world where if he continues to play like this, would they have to look into
02:13potentially extending him?
02:16Yeah.
02:16I mean, if he continues to improve at this rate, um, they have to consider it because
02:23it would be wildly unpopular as crazy as it feels for me to say this.
02:28If he was able to lead them to a winning record, they flirt with or get into the playoffs and
02:33then they decide to cut bait.
02:35Um, it's, it's just the way that the league goes.
02:38Now, if you look at financially, what, what is ahead for him, uh, even if he's not on the
02:44Browns, he's, he's got a good amount of dead money because of the way that they've pushed
02:49out a lot of, uh, these, these void years in restructuring him every year, he's, he's
02:53going to account for a $36 million cap hit next year and a 51.5 million cap hit in 2028.
02:59That's without being on the roster.
03:01Um, and so when you look at that, there's a little bit of incentive to find a way to,
03:08you know, do another deal and then continue to kick the can down the road by just stretching
03:13out the impact that he'll have, uh, you know, cap wise, if he continues to be a competent
03:19quarterback.
03:19And that still remains a big, if as of now, obviously, uh, it's been successful, um, pretty
03:25successful for this offense and, and they're winning games, they're winning games in a formula
03:29that's pretty familiar to Browns fans, which is defense first, get enough from your offense.
03:33And, uh, I mean, it's only one last night too.
03:36And, you know, it's funny how, and I can sense it in your guys' voices and I know from the
03:42many texts that I've received from friends, you know, in the Cleveland area and beyond
03:46how quickly a few wins can change the tone of a season, can change the narrative around
03:54the team, can change the vibe around the whole thing.
03:58Uh, I mean, wasn't it nice for you guys to, to wake up today and be like, wow, the Browns
04:02won last night.
04:03The Browns are in a three game winning streak.
04:05Like, wasn't that nice?
04:06And at the quarterback that's involved in that and plays a, you know, a central part in that
04:10as any quarterback with a winning team does, uh, if he's, you know, on that roster and
04:16still, you know, I mean, he's in his early thirties, um, I think you have to consider,
04:21you know, keeping around beyond this year, even if it derails the ultimate plan that
04:24everybody anticipated, which was be a bad football team, you know, get through the Deshaun
04:29thing, bench him for Shadour, ride out the season, draft a quarterback in the top five
04:33of the draft.
04:34Well, maybe sometimes things change.
04:36So we'll see again.
04:37And it's only the first month of the season that we're through now, uh, there's a lot
04:40of football left and there's a lot of opportunities for this team, for this team season to go in
04:44a number of different ways.
04:45But yeah, as it stands right now, I think that's absolutely on the table if they continue on
04:49this path.
04:50When you watch Deshaun, I think something that's been interesting is, is watching like each
04:54game.
04:54There's just one quarter where he's awesome.
04:56Uh, last night it was the second quarter.
04:57I mean, maybe, you know, 11 to 12, 150 yards, three touchdowns, just insane.
05:02And we've had that last week.
05:03It was the fourth quarter.
05:04And then the other parts of the game, maybe not as much, uh, obviously it's three game
05:08winning drives.
05:09So he still came to life in that fourth quarter.
05:11But what do you, when you watch him, what do you see that makes it where he just gets
05:14in these incredible hot streaks where he's just playing like he's Patrick Mahomes.
05:19I don't know if I would say necessarily Patrick Mahomes, but I understand what you're saying.
05:23Um, what it is, is every game feels like a rollercoaster ride where in the past he has started
05:30kind of slowly.
05:31Um, Todd Monk has done a good job of trying to get him a few layups early to get into
05:34a
05:35rhythm.
05:36Uh, they got the layups for the really just well, well, schemed game plan.
05:40I think a well-designed game plan where you're going to hit the Steelers in the flats.
05:44You're going to try to attack them with screens and that sort of thing, soften up the defense
05:48a little bit.
05:48The offensive line performed way better than expected.
05:51And I think Watson thrived in that scenario, but what we're, what we kind of see from him is
05:55somebody who, yeah, he has a hot streak, he has a high, he has a low, he has a high,
05:58he has a low, but the lows are never extremely low after week one.
06:02Those, those lows were bad.
06:03But, um, since then they've never been, you know, catastrophically low and they're still
06:07on the tracks.
06:08You know, if you think about his games as like the millennium force, for example, like, you
06:13know, you're going to get some highs and some rises and falls, even after that first,
06:17you know, massive, incredibly steep hill.
06:19And, um, and what you end up doing is you come back in the station, you think, wow,
06:23that was fun.
06:23Uh, and that's kind of what, you know, Brown's games have been with Deshaun Watson this year.
06:28It's a quarterback who, the thing that has been most remarkable to me is the way that
06:34he's been able to navigate the pocket and extend plays, because that was the one element
06:38that I felt like he'd lost forever.
06:40I mean, even that preseason game against the Bills, he looked like the slowest moving player
06:43on the field against third stringers.
06:45And I was thinking, okay, well the, the, the Watson that could create a little bit, you
06:50know, in his prime in Houston, it's just gone.
06:52It's never coming back.
06:52Well, it's, it started to come back a little bit, not saying that he's anywhere near Texans
06:56Deshaun Watson, but I mean, it was a touchdown pass to Harold Fannin against the Panthers
07:00where he stepped up out into the left of the pocket and threw, you know, a ball off platform
07:05on the run to his left and got it there.
07:07You know, obviously the short pass, but it's still a touchdown pass.
07:09Um, it's the, you know, the heavy reliance on, on Denzel Boston and the success
07:15that they've enjoyed from it.
07:16It's quick decision-making when he gets a one-on-one with a guy like Boston outside
07:19or Concepcion, he gets the ball out.
07:21It's usually on target.
07:23Yes.
07:23He missed a couple of key throws last night that could have contributed to a loss, but
07:27overall, I'm seeing a guy who finds his comfort zone, operates within it and has done a pretty
07:34decent job of avoiding complete catastrophe.
07:37Uh, the second bubble he had on that scramble last night was about as close as he's got to,
07:41to complete catastrophe, but he's playing within himself.
07:43And I think he's playing with a coach who understands his strengths and is coaching him that way.
07:47And you can see the comfort kind of developing, which is, you know, it's, it's a pretty surprising
07:53sight to see for the quarterback wearing number four in brown and orange.
07:57Speaking of coaching, what do you make of Mike Rutenberg and the job that he's done?
08:01Obviously week one was pretty tough for Deshaun.
08:04It was pretty tough for the defense too, where Trevor Lawrence kind of carved him up, but they've
08:07responded really nicely over the last three weeks.
08:10What's working well for Rudy right now?
08:13Yeah.
08:14You know, it's funny because Browns fans crushed me for saying that they would lose the
08:18Jags by like 20 some points in week one, but that was never a matchup that this team was
08:22going to win.
08:23No matter how prepared their defense was, it's just on paper.
08:27That's an offense that came back that, that, um, you know, had complete continuity under Liam
08:31Cohen and could pick up right where they left off against the defense under a new coordinator
08:35with some new pieces, also the first gameplay without miles Garrett, they were never going
08:38to be that successful, but it wasn't as we've learned over the last three weeks, really a
08:42preview of necessarily of how they would perform all year.
08:45I think he's done a really good job of being aggressive in spots, um, and committing to
08:50things that work within a game and not being ego driven and not staying too tightly to what
08:56he prefers to do.
08:57I mean, last night they played a ton of man coverage, which is honestly a bit of disrespect
09:01to the Steelers, but it also was something that, you know, Rutenberg realized that, um,
09:05would work out well for the Browns that they could cover and if they could create pressure
09:08and play tight man coverage, Aaron Rodgers wasn't going to have an easy way up and he
09:11was at the hole in the ball.
09:13We know he doesn't, he doesn't have the mobility that he used to have, and he was going to
09:15run himself into sacks, which is what he did.
09:18Um, and so I think what he has is a good understanding of his personnel.
09:22And I think he's got buy-in from those guys.
09:24The good thing about being a young and hungry team is it's easier to get buy-in from the players
09:29as long as you have a coach who understands how to tap into their emotional side.
09:33And I think that the staff has done a very good job, especially at Rutenberg, because
09:37there's probably a bit of, um, like a shared identity among this hungry young team, largely
09:44young, uh, say for a guy like Malik Collins, um, and a young coordinator who's getting his
09:49first real opportunity to lead a defense.
09:51And they're kind of all in this together and he's doing a really good job of, of maximizing
09:54most of his talent.
09:55I'm, you know, hesitant to see, uh, how this defense, you know, adapts after, you know,
10:01Mason Graham went down last night and they did a good job that luckily they got my call
10:04back at a, at a, at a crucial time, uh, to get some pressures, but overall, he's done
10:09a very good job of kind of staying similar to the identity that they had under Jim Schwartz
10:13without being quite as aggressive in terms of blitzes and using his talents the best.
10:18So, I mean, you got to give him, you know, positive marks for what they've done.
10:20Did they have some breakdowns late in the game last night?
10:22Yeah.
10:23But that was really a product of them playing man the whole time.
10:26DK Metcalf winning a couple of one-on-ones.
10:28So it's not a huge concern.
10:29I think he's done a good job.
10:30Nick Shook, NFL.com on the Y's are right.
10:32We make it right.
10:33Call Kyle, right.
10:34Hotline.
10:34How much credit does Andrew Barry get for this strong start?
10:38Oh, a ton.
10:39Um, I mean, he's the architect of this young core that they have.
10:43I think it, it, it's funny when Brown's games are on national TV, so they get the national
10:49perspective in real time.
10:50So people start like diving into the background of the team and you see people highlighting
10:54their draft classes over the last two years.
10:57And like, they, like they just, you know, stumbled upon it.
10:59It's a revelation.
11:00Yeah, it's funny.
11:01Man, I get it.
11:02I, I, I'm in that, I'm in that seat too.
11:04And it's, it sometimes it's hard to dive too deeply into all 32 teams, but it's just funny
11:07to watch it when it comes to these Browns, because if you go back to the draft this, this
11:11year, it was another one that on paper looked very strong.
11:13I was, I thought it was the best class in this whole, you know, year of all 32 teams
11:19drafts.
11:19I thought they did the best job and I thought they had one of the best last year too.
11:22So, I mean, it's produced results.
11:24It's there.
11:25There were so many scenarios in which losing Jeremiah was the core mode could have left
11:29the linebacking core decimated for years.
11:32And instead they went and got Carson Swessinger, a player that a lot of people didn't know who
11:36he was, former walk-on at UCLA, all, you know, the whole story we all know now.
11:39And he's played fantastically and he's a key part of your defense, getting Jared
11:44Vers in the trade with Miles Garrett versus starting to produce, you know, veterans like
11:49Collins alongside Mason Graham, another Andrew Barry draft pick the trade for Tyson
11:54Campbell, moving on from Greg Newsome, who Jacksonville was even interested in keeping
11:58he's playing in New York.
11:59Now they won that trade.
12:00Grant Delpick, it's the game ceiling interception.
12:02He feels like he's been around forever.
12:04Ronnie Hickman, you know, somebody they plucked out of Ohio state.
12:06Everybody had overlooked ends up playing, you know, a high amount of snaps in his defense
12:11and becoming a good football player, which he first started to show in that preseason
12:14of his rookie year.
12:15These are all moves that were made by an Andrew Barry front office.
12:18And we haven't even talked about the offense and Benville Boston and Casey Concepcion and
12:21Quinn John Judkins.
12:22And, you know, Austin Barber played really well, had a right guard last night as, you
12:27know, playing in place of the usual starter.
12:29And I think the worst of their five offensive linemen last night was Zion Johnson.
12:33Like Luke Whipler played well.
12:34Luke Whipler, another guy he plucked from Ohio state who had gone, you know, flown under
12:37the radar for the most part.
12:38And also sat second or third in the death chart in the last few years.
12:41This is all a testament to his roster construction.
12:43And all you really needed was a quarterback who could play competently to allow you to kind
12:49of show what you've done elsewhere.
12:50So the job's not finished.
12:52Like not to quote Kobe Bryant or anything, but like the job is certainly not finished.
12:56There's still a year or two away from like really putting this team together.
12:58And it's always a delicate balancing act of the salary cap.
13:01But I mean, look, he's, if they keep winning football games, he's going to get a ton of
13:05praise and rightfully so.
13:06And you know what?
13:07The best thing about it is, this is a guy who was crushed for years for not knowing how
13:10to draft a receiver.
13:11He's got two really good young ones.
13:13He drafted in the same class this year.
13:14How about that?
13:15It's a good point.
13:16Nick, strong stuff as always.
13:17We appreciate you.
13:18We'll catch up with you later.
13:20Yeah.
13:21Thanks for having me on.
13:21I look forward to Nick Wilson.
13:23Oh, he's getting back on here so we can go back and forth on that list.
13:27Yeah.
13:28He'll call you.
13:28He has my number.
13:29He knows where to find me.
13:30I think, I think he was.
13:31I think he was trying to find you.
13:32He was texting you.
13:32I know that.
13:33And then he'll call you Shooky Monster 12 times and then we'll get there.
13:38Yeah.
13:38All right.
13:38That sounds good.
13:39See you then.
13:40Thank you, Nick.
13:40All right.
13:40Bye.
13:41All right.
13:41Nick Shook right there.
13:42Otherwise, all right.
13:42We make it right.
13:43Call Kyle Wright Hotline.
Comments