00:00to talk about the Browns 27-6 loss to the Steelers.
00:04We head out to the wise heart, right?
00:06We make it right.
00:07Call Kyle Wright Hotline and welcome on Browns analyst Nathan Zagura
00:10who joins us every single Monday here on the show.
00:13Nathan, welcome to the show.
00:16Good to be with you guys.
00:17Obviously not as fun on this Monday as it has been on Monday's past
00:21as that was a performance that I would say left us all wanting
00:26when we left Pittsburgh yesterday afternoon.
00:28I think that is fair to say.
00:31Nathan, what was the turning point in this game from your vantage point?
00:36It's easy.
00:37It was the draw play to Jalen Warren to start the drive that began with,
00:42I think, 43 seconds left in the first half.
00:44And I am convinced, I don't know, I didn't talk to Mike McCarthy about it,
00:48but I'm pretty convinced that had we stuffed that run,
00:52they were content to just go into the half, up a touchdown,
00:55getting the ball to start the second half.
00:56They weren't going to push it against our defense.
00:58And then when we give up that 25-yard run, now they say, okay, let's go for it.
01:03They end up getting down to the one because of an injury to Tyson Campbell.
01:06They get a free timeout.
01:07They punch it in.
01:08And all of a sudden, it's 20-6 at the half with them getting the ball.
01:12And that just felt to me like that was it.
01:14Because had you gone into the half 13-6, even though we didn't defer
01:18and weren't getting the football, which I wish we were getting the football
01:21to start the second half, it would have been, the narrative would have been,
01:24the Browns played pretty darn badly in that first half.
01:28Steelers dominated, had a chance to really be up probably 21-6, 24-6,
01:34something in that range.
01:35And yet they were only up 13-6.
01:37That would be one of those, oh, man, we're dominating,
01:40but we're letting them hang around.
01:41And, you know, sometimes those psychological things manifest themselves
01:44in the second half.
01:45And for the Browns, you'd say, go in the half and say, all right,
01:47we played as bad as we could.
01:49It's a one-score game.
01:51We're a great one-score game.
01:52Let's go do this, and all of a sudden I think them getting that run
01:55that made them say, oh, well, maybe we will go try to get some points
01:58and then getting points and making it 20-6 at the half.
02:01I thought that was just a real gut punch.
02:05Between Braylon Allen, Tony Pollard, now Jalen Warren,
02:08running backs have had their success lately against the Browns.
02:11Is it just because everyone is just a little bit more injured
02:14at this point of the season, or is there something fundamentally you're seeing
02:18with the run defense that's letting these running backs
02:20just kind of go off in many ways?
02:23Well, teams are taking advantage of our up-the-field aggressiveness.
02:26We're getting trapped to death.
02:27We're getting drawed to death.
02:29And I think that that's something we're going to have to revisit
02:31or at least think about it.
02:33I mean, teams are making a conscious decision to let players get up the field
02:37and just run up to the second level.
02:39And if they can get through, if the back, if they get the gap right
02:43based on the way that we're aligned, the back's through,
02:45and now you're at the second level with blockers,
02:47and we're seeing those chunk runs come as a result of it.
02:49It feels like our run D right now is kind of almost feast or famine.
02:53When we're right, you know, we lead the NFL in tackles for loss,
02:56and we hit those tackles for loss in run plays.
02:58But when we're wrong, we're giving up chunk plays.
03:00And, I mean, no bigger example than the 25-yarder I mentioned.
03:03And then on third and 13, you know, they hit a 51-yarder.
03:06Here's the crazy thing.
03:07They were in third and seven or more only four times in the entirety of the game.
03:10They ran the football on three of those.
03:13They picked up the first down on two.
03:15The one time they tried to throw a pass, Aiden Huntington got his lone sack of the game.
03:18So they had a pretty clear strategy in those situations
03:24and took advantage, I think, of our aggressiveness.
03:26And it's tough because that's kind of what makes our defense special at times.
03:29But at the other time, it's been one of those live-by-the-sword,
03:32die-by-the-sword situations for the Cleveland Browns.
03:34All right.
03:34I want to talk about something I really enjoyed watching yet again
03:38for the second Sunday in a row, Harold Fannin Jr.
03:40I know some of this stuff happened after the game was out of reach,
03:43but he did have 100 yards before this game, did fall out of reach here.
03:47He's now got more than half of his yardage on the season has come the last two weeks.
03:52What's been the difference the last two weeks for Harold Fannin Jr.?
03:56Well, clearly he's in a good rhythm with Deshaun Watson.
04:00Then he is a yak machine.
04:02And yak is a quarterback stat, but I think there's also certain players that have gifts for it.
04:06Harold Fannin is one of them.
04:07He leads all tight ends in the NFL in yards after the catch, you know, 10 catches career-high, 154
04:14yards career-high.
04:15In fact, that's the most receiving yards by a Browns tight end since Ozzie Newsom had 14 catches for 191
04:22yards against the Jets in 1984.
04:24So that was a historically good performance right there by Harold Fannin.
04:29And you're seeing him become a big-time playmaker as we established Denzel Boston as a vertical threat,
04:34as we get Casey Concepcion more involved.
04:36Now you're seeing one of the big passes down the field was a sale concept where he had to clear
04:40out on the right side.
04:41He runs that corner underneath it.
04:43Watson puts it right on him.
04:44I think they're in a good rhythm.
04:45I think Deshaun knows how he kind of runs his routes when he sits down and has done a good
04:50job.
04:50And some of them have put it on the back shoulder, keeping him away from hits.
04:54And they've just been in, I think, a very good rhythm.
04:56And Harold Fannin obviously is a very good young player, and you're certainly seeing that right now.
05:00What was your read on Deshaun's game?
05:01Obviously, another back-to-back 300-yard performance is always nice, even though they didn't find the end zone as
05:05much as we all would have liked.
05:08I thought he played well.
05:09I think he's made some really nice throws in the game.
05:12There are, you know, we have to be careful dropping too far deep back in the pocket on some of
05:17those shotgun plays.
05:19I think that part of that was caused by the fact that the Steelers were getting interior pressure at the
05:22quickest rate that they got all season,
05:24the most of it, and the quickest rate, it was not a great game for our, I'm sorry, for our
05:29offensive line.
05:31Spencer Fano struggled.
05:32We struggled in the interior.
05:35Titus Howard actually I thought had a better game than maybe the numbers would show or that people watching it
05:40because on a couple of those sacks, I think Deshaun was probably too deep in the pocket.
05:45Maybe because of interior pressure, he felt like he had to get away from him.
05:48But overall, I thought he threw the ball well.
05:50I thought at times he could have seen it better and made quicker decisions with the football.
05:54It felt like early in the game, though, you give credit to the Steelers.
05:57They were all over our quick game.
05:59And a couple of those sacks happened because, man, quick game is not there.
06:02Well, where am I going with it?
06:04Boom, pockets collapse, and he gets sacked.
06:05So the sacks are too many.
06:07Eight of them in this one obviously leads the league 33 sacks on the season.
06:11But I thought he threw the ball well.
06:13The few times when he actually had a nice pocket, I thought he really ripped the ball well.
06:17But, you know, we've got to be better as an offense all together.
06:20And really right now the questions you mentioned about the run game on the defensive side,
06:25I think we have questions as well about on the offensive side, you know,
06:29we're struggling with these what I would call five-man fronts
06:31or three-four traditional three-four defenses.
06:34We are struggling with those.
06:36Our best games have come against four-man fronts.
06:38And, you know, you're still going to see more three-four defenses, base three-four defenses,
06:44what's really kind of a, you'd call it a 5-1-5 nickel situation on the back end,
06:48or sometimes they go to a 4-2-5.
06:50But that has been tough for us on the early downs, especially in the ground game,
06:54and this one was no different.
06:55Nathan, I've had multiple debates today because I was very annoyed at what I think
07:01are very, very smart football people trying to tell me that Mason McCormick's play
07:06on Jared Verse, turning him into a lawn dart, that that wasn't a dirty play.
07:11I just, how did you view that play?
07:13Because I think the fact he got flagged for it speaks for itself.
07:18I would agree with that.
07:19I think that, you know, yes, you were taught when a guy jumps up to dump him down,
07:22I thought that that was done in a way that was very dangerous on his head and neck.
07:25And so that is, that's more what I had a problem with on that play than anything.
07:31Um, you know, it's a physical game, obviously there was a lot that was said leading up to
07:36this game.
07:36And unfortunately from a, from a Browns perspective, you know, we just were not on the right side
07:41of enough of those things that we needed to be to win this game, to back that up.
07:45And, you know, for, for Jared Verse, I know he wants to make the impact that I think everybody,
07:50you know, is hoping for from him and expecting from him and hopefully that comes soon.
07:55But yeah, that was, that was an ugly play.
07:56And I thought, honestly, in real time, it was a pretty scary play because of, of the
08:02angle at which he was, he was thrown down there.
08:04I know there's not a bunch that is positive takeaway, but I really liked what Dylan Sampson
08:08was doing in the receiving game.
08:11Can you kind of speak to some of the opportunities he got and basically what he did with them?
08:15He's got great hands.
08:16And even last year, it was 40 targets, 33 catches.
08:18And he's a, he's a darn good player in those situations.
08:22So I am a big Dylan Sampson fan.
08:25I like kind of the one, two punch that we have with Dylan, as well as Quinshawn Judkins.
08:30And yeah, he is excellent on the backfield.
08:31He catches everything, made some good yards after the catch as well in that game.
08:35And, and yeah, he brings some juice to this team in those third down roles that we didn't
08:39have, obviously in the first six games of the season.
08:40But yeah, he was good.
08:42You know, that's the thing in this game is that there was not a lot to be excited about
08:46ultimately when you lose a game like that.
08:48And in the fashion in which we did, but you have performances.
08:52You guys mentioned Harold Fannin, Dylan Sampson, I'll go eight on the defensive side.
08:57Aiden Huntington now has three and a half sacks, a career high, and is looking like in
09:00his second year as an undrafted free agent, a real gem and a real, a real player for the
09:04Cleveland Browns.
09:05Tyson Campbell, I thought turned in one of his best games of the year.
09:09Absolutely blanketing DK Metcalf.
09:11Metcalf was targeted five times with him in coverage, caught one pass for four yards on
09:15the day.
09:15And then Denzel Ward continues to be superior.
09:18Their, their, their receivers on 12 targets at 43 yards in this game.
09:23I mean, that is lockdown stuff from the Browns corners and this one, Miles Harden as well.
09:27So those things were encouraging.
09:29Obviously it was a discouraging overall game and you never want to lose in that fashion
09:33where, as I said, going into it, the team that played cleaner football and the team that
09:38was the more physical was going to win.
09:40Maybe if you split one of the two, you had a chance, but the Steelers played cleaner football
09:44and the Steelers were the more physical team in this game.
09:46I know it's early.
09:47We're not quite turning the page for the Saints game yet, but what is the number one thing
09:51with a bullet that needs to be corrected from a Sunday's game against the Steelers for
09:57the Browns to, to get the win against the Saints and get back on the right side of this?
10:02From just a pure football perspective, it's obviously the lines of scrimmage.
10:05If we control the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball, we're going to win.
10:08But the bigger picture to me is, you know, we're now in the negative 50 plus point
10:13realm in terms of the first quarter differential.
10:15We have got to find a way to start games faster.
10:18I don't care who you're playing.
10:19You just make it hard on yourself when you're down a touchdown or more after the first quarter.
10:24So if you were to ask me the one thing that I really want to see this football team do,
10:27it's start these games, get out of the gates, make some plays and go.
10:35Opposed to having to be chasing it all the time after the fact.
10:39Nathan, did your, uh, your little one, uh, dress up for, for Halloween?
10:44Oh yeah.
10:44We had lightning McQueen was out there, the challenge and getting his candy.
10:48And then, uh, and we were the pit crew and it was, it was awesome.
10:51How about you?
10:52Oh yeah.
10:52We had the, uh, Chesar cat in the white rabbit in the Wilson household.
10:56Yeah.
10:57I had a flamingo and, uh, and Ariel, a little mermaid.
11:02Sure.
11:02Of course.
11:03Classic.
11:03Well, it was a fun time.
11:05It was a fun, he's, you know, just about to be 17 months.
11:07So it was, he's still young, but we had him in a little car that had a frunk and he
11:11got
11:11a kick out of just taking the candy and dropping it in there.
11:14And he thought that was the coolest thing ever.
11:15So yeah, it was a very successful Halloween and, and, and certainly a lot of fun.
11:20And, and now, you know, November didn't start the way we wanted from a Browns perspective.
11:23And hopefully we, uh, get that taken care of going forward.
11:26I think they'll have a really good shot this Sunday.
11:28Nathan, we appreciate you, buddy.
11:29Thanks so much.
11:30All right.
11:31You got it.
11:31Thank you guys.
11:32Browns analyst, Nathan Segura there on the wise heart, right?
11:35We make it right.
11:36Call Kyle, right.
11:37Hotline.
Comments