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00:00As annoyed as I was at how Todd Munkin handled his presser today,
00:04then as much as it just feels like, all right,
00:07you've opened a can of worms now that you could have just left unopened.
00:11Actually, the three big decisions that Todd Munkin had yesterday,
00:14I agreed with.
00:16I agreed with every one of his biggest decisions,
00:19and I have heard people refer to yesterday as a Todd Munkin loss.
00:23I disagree.
00:24I need names on those people.
00:28I don't want to take shots at people.
00:30Oh, that's the worst lead-in to give me, and you know that.
00:35That's the worst lead-in.
00:36Because maybe you'll dig, and maybe you will hear it.
00:38That makes me want to find out even more who it is.
00:40I was just doing the blanket, and tell me who these people are
00:43if you just swiftly move past it.
00:45Todd Munkin should be going for the win yesterday.
00:47Of course he is.
00:49Find me the logic for why he shouldn't.
00:51Is it just the idea that if you tie, you have better odds for the playoffs?
00:55I don't know, eight weeks from now?
00:57I think the idea is 5-3-1 is better than 5-4.
01:00No, it's week nine of the NFL season.
01:02You go for it at this point.
01:03Also, you're not guaranteed the tie in that scenario,
01:07which is what Munkin has tried to impress upon,
01:09saying, well, the Saints are going to get the ball back with a minute to go.
01:12I believe they still had both of their timeouts.
01:14I think they have two timeouts left.
01:15So they've got two timeouts and have to go anywhere from 25 to 35 yards,
01:20maybe 40 yards, depending on where the kickoff ends up being received at
01:27and taken to, it's not that hard to get that kind of yardage,
01:31especially against the defense that had given up two big drives
01:34at the end of OT and regulation.
01:36We watched the Ravens win a game needing seven seconds to go downfield.
01:39Like, where this all is set and how the kickoff rules are enforced now
01:43and how it works with yardage, like, it just doesn't take much
01:45to get in field goal range these days.
01:47And a minute, it might as well be a whole entire –
01:50it might as well be six minutes.
01:51Also, it's a mentality thing.
01:53Like, every one of the decisions that Todd Munkin has been criticized for today
01:57because they just didn't work out,
01:59they were all based in what I like about Todd Munkin,
02:02which is he is aggressive in games.
02:05It's not entirely across the board,
02:08but he is situationally aggressive.
02:10And I thought every moment that he made an aggressive decision
02:13in yesterday's game made sense.
02:15They lost.
02:16That's on players executing, things not getting done, stupid penalties.
02:20But it's not because Todd Munkin decided to try and win the game
02:23at the end of OT, which, by the way,
02:27you were just coming off an incredible play from Harold VandenJu.
02:30Yeah, I mean, once you kick the extra point,
02:32you're telling everybody, the best we can do,
02:34the best outcome for this game is a tie.
02:36No.
02:37That's just awful.
02:37Do I love the play call with Shador out of the shotgun,
02:43rolling to his right on the final play of the game?
02:46Didn't love that one.
02:47No, didn't love that one.
02:48And also, I don't know where your confidence was.
02:50Once they scored the touchdown and them converting the two-point conversion,
02:53my confidence was oddly low.
02:54Yeah, well, because...
02:55I don't know what that was about,
02:57considering they just moved up and down the field
02:58and had made everything work,
02:59but I just did not have much belief they were going to get that done.
03:02Mine stems from the end of regulation where...
03:05And I'll go back to it.
03:06Like, Todd Munkin had been chewing out Shador in the offense for most of that game.
03:10At the end of regulation, there was a bless-your-heart moment from Todd Munkin
03:14where Shador was coming off and he was hanging his head.
03:17And it was clear that Shador wasn't happy with his play on the Browns' final drive
03:22to set up the Schmidt field goal.
03:25And Todd just kind of...
03:26It was one of those...
03:27Honestly, it gained my respect immensely.
03:30As much as everyone goes,
03:32Oh, I love that we chewed this guy out in this moment
03:34or the what-the-bleep moment.
03:35Yeah, that's fine.
03:36Every coach should do that.
03:38But when Shador's walking off and kind of dejected...
03:41Because I think Shador thought they were going to get points there
03:43or maybe thought they were going to get in a better position
03:45so that Andre Schmidt didn't have to kick a 52-yard field goal
03:48to go to overtime.
03:50And Shador was dejected for the way he played.
03:53And Todd just kind of put out his hands and went,
03:55It's okay.
03:56I thought that was really cool.
03:59You sound like Todd there.
04:00I thought that was really cool.
04:01But, you know, I serve at the feet of the Todd father.
04:04But, I mean, I think that's a moment where some coaches continue to use the boots
04:10and kick a player.
04:12And I think Todd Munkin realized,
04:13One, we're going to overtime.
04:14We can't have this guy going to the commode.
04:16You've got to have his mentality as high as it can possibly be.
04:18But that was...
04:19I thought that was a very human response on top of everything else we saw.
04:23I mean, one thing I'm always impressed with the coaches
04:25that are actually good at this is how they understand the moment.
04:28And they also understand how to get to each individual player.
04:31Shador is a, when he's cooking, he's a cooking guy.
04:33And he feeds off confidence.
04:34And he might be the most heat-checked quarterback I think I've ever seen in my life.
04:38I believe that was Caleb Williams last night.
04:41Which one of the four interceptions do you want to discuss?
04:44When you threw the first pick, which was bad enough,
04:47and he came right back two plays later and was just like, bleep it.
04:50That man does not care.
04:52He does not care.
04:53And I love that for him.
04:54That was Baker and him just having to pick off.
04:57I was right there for it.
04:58It was a good game.
05:00It was a pretty bleepy game.
05:02There were seven turnovers.
05:03But it was fun.
05:04I had fantasy implications late at night.
05:06And so the Loveland play at the end,
05:08I thought I was going to get hosed by your buddy there.
05:10And then there we are.
05:11Somebody's going to 7-2 in the season, but y'all don't care.
05:14No.
05:15Four-game winning streak.
05:16Yeah.
05:17Now we've talked about this too much.
05:18Now what about Daryl?
05:21He might get a win this week.
05:23Also might not.
05:23That seems to be the trend with him.
05:26But Chador's a confidence guy.
05:27I mean, clear as day.
05:28He's a confidence guy.
05:29And so that was obviously the right string for Munkin to pull.
05:32He'd be an idiot to pull any other string.
05:33Was yesterday a Todd Munkin loss?
05:35Do you agree with the decision to go for the win at the end of overtime?
05:41I almost said regulation again.
05:42That's a hard word to kind of go with there.
05:44Let's go with Antoine in Cleveland.
05:48Are you pro the two-point conversion attempt at the end of overtime?
05:52No, I'm not pro.
05:54Oh.
05:55Oh, because either way it goes,
05:57the guys, they still have a minute and a half to go down the field
06:00and kick a field goal.
06:01So either way, you go for the tie, hope for a turnover,
06:04and go down and win a game.
06:06Hope for a turnover is your play there?
06:08Yes.
06:09Playing for a tie, Antoine?
06:11Antoine, if you simulate that, you're going to lose 99% of the game.
06:14Antoine, this is America.
06:15We don't play for ties here, buddy.
06:19Well, I'd rather have a tie than to lose.
06:21No, I'd rather go for it and lose than sit there and say, like, a tie is cool.
06:25I can see if it was the end of the season and we wasn't making the playoffs,
06:28but you're trying to fight for a playoff game.
06:31Yeah, that's why you win.
06:32That's why you try and win.
06:33I think if it's week 18 and this is the final, and you know, like,
06:36in this instance, oddly enough, we can play.
06:38The seventh seed is where the Browns would be with a tie right now.
06:40They're the eighth seed because they went for it and lost.
06:42That's the only time I can think of where it's acceptable.
06:44It's week 18, and you know that a tie actually matters for your playoff implications.
06:50It's week nine.
06:50You've got to go for it.
06:52Okay, I understand.
06:54Antoine, we appreciate you, buddy.
06:55Thank you for the difference of opinion, though.
06:57Yeah.
06:58Because I didn't think.
06:59Thank you for the difference of opinion.
07:01I didn't think anybody would call in with a different opinion on that.
07:04Like, it seems pretty closed and shut.
07:05I can't believe people are even arguing that you needed to go for the tie.
07:09And you're going to play for a turnover?
07:11Yeah, and that's.
07:12Play for a turnover?
07:14Who the hell wants to tie?
07:15Who's playing for a turnover?
07:16Honestly, why the hell are we tying for games?
07:18You watch Chuck go down and score back-to-back touchdowns in successive drives,
07:22but you're going to play for a turnover with a minute left?
07:24Think about the billions.
07:25What is that?
07:26And billions of dollars in gambling right now.
07:29And we're having NFL games end in ties?
07:33We're having NFL games.
07:34Real, real live NFL games end ties.
07:36That's a different discussion.
07:37No, it's absolute crap.
07:38You want to give more time is what you're saying?
07:40You want to go ahead and just play the string out here?
07:41You get one 10-minute period at the end of overtime,
07:44and then we go to college rules.
07:45Everybody gets the ball at the 25,
07:47and you just keep going until somebody can't score anymore.
07:50I know that there's player health implications.
07:52Guys, it's the ball at the 25.
07:54I think you're going to.
07:55I'm fine with it.
07:56Like, this might happen two times a year, by the way.
07:59It's not like ties are the grass, but I absolutely hate ties.
08:02I mean, it really is one of those conversations, though.
08:03When we start to enter it, it's like, are we just beating up on everyone
08:06when it's an obvious 99% of people know that you have to go ahead
08:09and go for the win in that setting?
08:11And first call out of the gate?
08:13We've got to go for the minute left to go ahead and get a turnover with the defense?
08:19That's why I said it as nice as I did.
08:20Thank you for the difference of opinion.
08:21If you tie your 5-3-1, okay, and if you win.
08:25They didn't win.
08:27But, yes, they could have won.
08:29They could have converted that.
08:30And right now, being 6-3 is a hell of a lot better than being 5-4.
08:33I thought it was very big of the morning show today, by the way,
08:35to acknowledge that 6-3 and 5-4 and what maybe one game does
08:39does actually make a drastic impact on your playoff implications.
08:41That was a good growth moment for the morning show that way.
08:45I didn't hear it, but I'm proud of it.
08:46It was very nice.
08:47I thought Lima was very nice in that moment.
08:49I also think Ken went out of his way.
08:50I mean, not nice to us, but he was nice.
08:51To make sure.
08:52He didn't know I had food poisoning, but to let me know that he just disagreed.
08:56Sorry, that he was trying to make a point with what he said about me on Friday,
09:00not that he was attacking me on Friday.
09:01And I was like, you know what?
09:02That felt like growth, too.
09:03I just think it's time to stop ignoring the penalties.
09:06And I know that because the Browns have been winning,
09:10I think all of us have kind of just living with it.
09:14But the Browns show signs of being a well-coached team with the way that they show up
09:19when the game is on the line and winning one-score games.
09:23Something has to be done about the penalties, and I'll tell you exactly what it is.
09:26I'm going to hearken back to the Giants about three or four weeks ago.
09:30John Harbaugh was furious about the run game.
09:32I can't remember what Najee Harris said, but he teed it up to be the absolute fall guy
09:38for the run game woes, and he got jettisoned out of New York as quickly as you possibly could.
09:45The Browns need that version for these penalties.
09:48And I have the fall guy.
09:49I'm going to give you the fall guy.
09:50All right, so then the fall guy, it's one guy that's going to take the brunt of it all for
09:53everyone.
09:53Yes, it's Daniel Thomas, the backup safety special teams player, who the Browns had pinned the Saints,
09:59I want to say at the 11, on a great play.
10:03You're playing a field position game.
10:05All you need to do is just have the right guy touch the ball down,
10:09and Daniel Thomas had been run onto the sidelines and came back in.
10:16It was the first guy to touch it.
10:17The Saints decided to then have the ball re-kicked, and it was like a 30-yard swing.
10:21The Saints ended up getting the ball almost at midfield.
10:24That is an – and Daniel Thomas is like a five- or six-year vet.
10:28He's a special teams guy.
10:29You can't cut Titus Howard.
10:31You owe him too much money, and quite frankly, you just can't do it.
10:35You can't cut half the guys making these stupid penalties.
10:38The Daniel Thomas penalty, if you're a special teams player, you have to be smarter than that.
10:43He seems like a nice guy.
10:44I root for guys like that.
10:46They're also the most expendable guys on the roster.
10:48Replacement-level player, get him out of here.
10:51Make a case of somebody, because at this point, we are nine games into the season,
10:55and you are the most heavily penalized team in the NFL, and it's not even good penalties.
10:59No, it's not.
11:00It's stupid penalties.
11:01A lot of pre-snaps.
11:02I would like somebody in that building to show how much they actually care about this.
11:06I can live with young guys making penalties.
11:08I can't live with ten penalties a damn game.
11:10Okay, so that's my problem with it, though, is that the response when asked –
11:14and Munkin continuously gets asked by it, and at this point he's kind of moved to,
11:17all right, it can't happen.
11:18But for weeks, Nick, it was just the response was, well, I don't really know why it's happening.
11:23I don't know what you really want me to do either about it.
11:26Because he's like, Titus Howard.
11:27Titus Howard's a veteran.
11:28He's been in the league for a long time.
11:30And it's just kind of like he just threw his hands up and was like, well, these things happen.
11:33These are veterans.
11:34Such a laissez-faire approach to it all.
11:36I think he just thought it would work itself out, and these guys would stop committing penalties.
11:39But now we're nine weeks into this thing, and you keep committing penalties, you've got to do something.
11:44And if you want to give a fall guy like you suggested, perfectly fine.
11:47Do whatever you've got to do.
11:48But, like, they've got to find an actual reason.
11:50Get Warhop ready to go.
11:52They've got to find an actual reason for why Howard continues to have these penalties,
11:55and all these guys on the line continue to have these penalties.
11:57And it might not work.
11:59And you will have just cut Daniel Thomas.
12:02Like, this is –
12:02No, but you've got to do something.
12:03Your answer can't always be, well, I can't explain it, and these are pro football players that need to be
12:08better.
12:08I feel like we live in the era – in the, you know, Ivy League for offices now are like,
12:13well, we don't cut players to make examples of them.
12:15I'm like, this is still football.
12:17And the most – yes, it's heavy-handed.
12:20Yes, it is putting the brunt on one person.
12:23But that locker room keeps seeing, hey, we can screw up every which way.
12:27We're still getting the same amount of reps.
12:29How long has it taken Quinshawn Jenkins of blowing blocks and just, I don't know,
12:34not being able to see in front of him before it finally looked like we're going to get some Dylan
12:38Sampson action?
12:39Nick, it's Ohio –
12:40Half a season?
12:40It's Ohio State firing their special teams coordinator today.
12:43Yep.
12:44It's not that he was the reason why.
12:46It's not the fake punt was the reason why.
12:47None of that stuff is truly the reason.
12:49But you have to show the locker room you have a backbone at some point.
12:53Yes, it is a tad bit perfunctory.
12:56But in football, this is what people understand.
12:59Football players are really, really smart.
13:01And if they know that there's not a causal penalty to your constant penalties,
13:07they don't have the incentive to do this.
13:10There's not – I really do think the mentality of the football player is very similar to the mentality of,
13:16like, the military.
13:17And that is, guys get gigged all the time in the military for the dumbest stuff simply to keep people
13:24on point.
13:25I have a friend who is a drill instructor who is like, yeah, I'll make stuff up about people because
13:30it helps keep them on edge,
13:32and that's how we need them on edge.
13:33I mean, football's no different.
13:35I feel like this is right – a page that Todd Munkin as an old-school guy can rip right
13:38out of the boat.
13:39For myself, it feels more just generic human mentality where it's like humans, we tend to try to –
13:45whatever we can get away with, you know, is what we keep doing.
13:48And if you keep getting away and there's no repercussions, then you're never going to feel like you have to
13:51change.
13:52You know I loathe most cliches in life.
13:55But I do believe this one to be true.
13:57The old adage, you either are coaching it or you're allowing it.
14:01And we didn't – listen, I understand that you – the difference here between the Kevin Stefanski penalty-laden teams
14:07is those were veteran teams.
14:08This is a young team.
14:10It's not just – I can live with Casey Concepcion dropping the ball on what I honestly thought was Shador's
14:16best throw of the day.
14:17It was a nice throw.
14:17On the sideline.
14:18I felt for Shador in that moment because I thought that was a purdy throw.
14:21I can live with that.
14:23I can live with rookie mistakes, missed blocks, even the quench on stuff to some degree.
14:27I can live with, as a second year back, I can't live with veterans making these mistakes.
14:33You can't.
14:34And if I can't cut Titus Howard, if I can't cut Zion Johnson, if I can't cut any of the
14:40guys making money
14:41because they're in the first year of a deal, you can find somebody in the NFL.
14:44It's not that damn hard.
14:46It's just too many every single week.
14:48And so now we have like three different things that we consistently have every single week
14:51that just makes the quarterback's life incredibly hard.
14:53We don't have a run game.
14:54We have way too many penalties.
14:56And we're allowing too many sacks.
14:58Like it's just – how do you try to win with that recipe?
15:002-1-6-4-7-4-0-0-9-2.
15:03This is the most obvious explanation.
15:06I could come up with it, but I want to cure the penalties.
15:08And my first chance is just firing somebody who made the wrong mistake yesterday.
15:13Imagine being Daniel Thomas listening to this right now.
15:15I feel bad.
15:15He seems like a really nice guy.
15:17He's like, dang it, Nick.
15:18Even in all of this –
15:19What are you doing to me?
15:19I Googled some of this stuff.
15:21He seems like a guy, like a really – like somebody who lives his life the right way.
15:25What did you find out about him when you Googled him?
15:26He seems like a really good Christian guy.
15:28Like there's a lot about him that I like.
15:30Not this.
15:31Sorry.
15:33You're the most expendable guy on the roster, and you made the stupidest mistake yesterday.
15:36You can't – I mean, that's a 30-yard swing.
15:39That is life or death stuff in a possession game.
15:43And, again, you were back out there late in that game, by the way.
15:47Oh, hey, Quinshot.
15:48You don't know the play, or Shador didn't know the play.
15:50And we'll get him next time.
15:52Don't worry about it.
15:53Come on now.
15:54Is he a big enough player to even make a dent in your fall guy idea?
15:57I feel like guys pay attention if Todd Munkin went in that locker room and said,
16:02listen, we really thought Daniel was going to help us on special teams.
16:04He made a bonehead play yesterday.
16:06But, guys, I can't tolerate this anymore.
16:08He's gone because of what he did yesterday.
16:10I feel like the guy that they keep making – at some point throughout the week,
16:14they always change this up because they have too many quarterbacks.
16:16Whoever that guy is, maybe just make that guy Daniel Thomas this week
16:18and then really be like, no, but this is the reason why.
16:21It's not about roster construction.
16:23We had to get to a number.
16:24This is the reason why.
16:26I like my guy better.
16:27Sorry, Daniel.
16:28Yeah, that's fine.
16:28Now that I've said it.
16:29All right, let's go with Bill and Beachwood.
16:32You've been waiting, Bill.
16:33What you got for us?
16:33We're Daniel Thomas.
16:34Hey, what's up, guys?
16:35Hey, listen, on Todd, nobody – would anybody understand that maybe he haven't
16:42started coaching until the third and fourth quarter?
16:46What do you think he does for the first half?
16:49Do you know how much time he let get off the clock in the fourth quarter,
16:53kick, kick, kick, until the two-minute mark?
16:56How do you know Shador wasn't pissed off about that?
16:59We had time, boss, to get closer, closer.
17:02You know, Todd, know your personnel.
17:04This is not the Ravens.
17:06Know your personnel.
17:07When we got down on a one-yard line, why is he getting fancy?
17:11What I mean by fancy is a pull to guard and so forth and so on.
17:15Aren't you talking about the end of overtime?
17:17Yeah, just run straight on and get that catch down.
17:20You know, there's no excuse for losing that game.
17:23Zero excuse.
17:25We can't put the hammer down a long time ago.
17:28But Todd, nobody mentions nothing about how he, again, did not –
17:35he's at the clock ticked down.
17:36He don't start getting playing called until, like, the fourth quarter.
17:40So, why are we doing nothing in the first and second quarter?
17:43So, here's the thing about the way he handled overtime.
17:46He was trying to avoid tying the game up and then the Saints getting the ball back.
17:51So, I think he was – I don't think he had made his decision yet
17:54on whether to try and go to win the game or to play for the tie.
17:58So, I think he was keeping the option open to play for the tie,
18:01and that's why they were letting so much time off the clock.
18:04It was two minutes and 30-some seconds left.
18:07He just let it tick.
18:08Like, if you recall, when he went down to the two-minute warning,
18:11he still had six seconds left in the game on the –
18:15before they can hike the ball, whatever you want to call it.
18:17He was trying to burn as much time off as he possibly could.
18:19Why?
18:20Well, because you don't want to give him the ball back
18:22with a chance to go ahead and get a field goal,
18:24as evidenced by the Ravens needing seven seconds to get a field goal.
18:27We had a first down then, guys.
18:29If you give a team a minute to go ahead and try to get a field goal,
18:32that might as well be an eternity in today's NFL.
18:35We had a first down.
18:37He let it go down to the two-minute warning.
18:39Bill, we got a boogie.
18:40He was burning time off.
18:41Yeah.
18:41Thank you, Bill.
18:42On Bill's larger point, I feel like, though,
18:44the idea that, like, why in the first half did he not let you throw a ball
18:47that was even 10 yards deep in any sort of way?
18:50Yeah, I thought that was very perplexing as to why you just kind of let him
18:55just dink and dunk the whole entire time.
18:56He hasn't let Deshaun do it either.
18:58Well, that's kind of the point, though.
18:59Like, it does kind of feel like if you're going to score in the fourth quarter
19:03when Deshaun decides to throw the ball deep
19:04and then also score in the fourth quarter when you let Shador throw the ball deep,
19:07I don't know.
19:08Maybe the green light should go on,
19:09and we should start throwing the ball deep a little bit more.
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