00:00I really do think people are either completely forgetting the first three quarters and only assessing the end-of-game
00:06stuff,
00:06which we've all been guilty of with Deshaun from moment to moment, so that's not necessarily a criticism,
00:12or they're overly harping on the first three quarters and ignoring.
00:17I think the way that Shador played is really hard to put the right term on because the peaks and
00:24the valleys are just so extreme,
00:26and there really wasn't a lot of in-between.
00:29Even late in the game, I've mentioned this, I don't love his two-minute drill at the end of the
00:35game, which set up Andre Schmidt.
00:37Even just the throw on the underneath, and it was after the Concepcion drop,
00:41but even the throw that sat down in the middle of the field, that cost you a timeout.
00:46Honestly, I would rather have just taken an incompletion there than got five yards in that moment.
00:53So even then, though, I feel like somehow just by pointing that out, I'm somehow also not acknowledging he got
01:00you in spot to take the field goal,
01:02and he did get you that touchdown at the end of OT as well.
01:05You did have the lead with two minutes remaining, and then the defense just basically had to shut down what
01:10the Saints were trying to do offensively.
01:13It's tough.
01:13What's funny about it is that we have a lot of practice in this very setting, though.
01:16At least we should.
01:17But Deshaun's given us a lot of games of what happened for three quarters to then put the cape on
01:22and save the day.
01:23So we should be very prepared for this, but it feels like nobody's taking this the right way, or at
01:28least in any sort of reasonable way.
01:30You're 100% right.
01:31It's either he played the greatest game you've ever seen, or he was just awful, and this is why he
01:36can't be a quarterback.
01:37I mean, even Bill Cowher saying he's the quarterback of the future, it's like,
01:41all right, I don't know you can come away from that game and say that.
01:43Like, I think he held serve with whatever Deshaun has done in aggregate over the first eight games of the
01:50season.
01:50That's not the same thing as he stole the job and he anointed himself a starter.
01:55Like, we talked about this late last week where it was like, there's a lot of gray area, which is
02:01usually where these situations tend to lie.
02:03The black and white stuff really only happens if someone is absolute caca or otherworldly talented.
02:11Shador and Deshaun in the quarterback conversation is somewhere in the gray.
02:16The decision for the Texans game, I think, is black and white.
02:20Either Shador did enough and he's starting against Houston or not.
02:25But, like, the actual long-term part of it, I have no idea how anyone thinks yesterday is actionable long
02:33-term with Shador.
02:34No, and listen, I think you guys want, like, I don't know, what's sobering about all this is the idea
02:39that you guys know where I stand with Shador.
02:41You know I like Shador, and what did I say all day long so far?
02:44I don't think he did enough to take the job.
02:45I don't think if it was me, and it just being reasonable, if it was me, I would have Deshaun
02:50Watson still be the starting quarterback.
02:52That tells you all you need to know right there, right?
02:54Yeah, I think that's funny.
02:55There were a couple people in the 92 Through the Fan YouTube chat that were like,
03:00why don't you just go ahead and say you love Deshaun?
03:02It's like, where have you been for the last four months here?
03:05I think I was tagged as the biggest Deshaun hater on the station.
03:07Actually, I responded to that, by the way.
03:10No, because you said you would boo him.
03:12That's the difference between you and me, why you took the crown.
03:15You missed it, by the way.
03:16What was that?
03:17On Friday, I said, I'm standing and applauding for LeBron James.
03:21I'm going to boo the hell out of Dean Wade.
03:22Never got my chance when I went to the game to boo Dean Wade, though.
03:24He didn't appear enough for me.
03:27At one point, I stood up.
03:28Why would you boo Dean Wade?
03:29Well, I got to boo somebody.
03:31Okay, that's fair.
03:31I'm the boo guy.
03:32I thought we established.
03:32That's fair.
03:32I just like to boo.
03:33I like to boo people.
03:34Screw Dean Wade.
03:35He's been talking all sorts of crap about everyone.
03:37Screw Dean Wade.
03:38And I was waiting.
03:39I was waiting to stand and boo Dean Wade.
03:41Never happened.
03:41He's just tall Delevedova.
03:44Actually, that's not fair.
03:45I want to walk that back immediately.
03:47Do not disrespect Matthew Delevedova.
03:48I was going to say, Matthew Delevedova is a champion.
03:52Dean Wade, you played at Wichita State or something like that.
03:55So, it's been established, though, obviously.
03:57Not the Deshaun Watson show, okay?
03:59Between the two of us.
04:00Not the Deshaun Watson show.
04:02But think about how pissed you'd be if you were Shador and he started the season the way
04:06that Deshaun did at 5-3 with the numbers that he had, albeit not the world's greatest
04:10numbers, but the numbers he had, and then was told to ride the pine after one game.
04:14You'd be pissed.
04:15So, I think that is a great point for you to make.
04:19And here's the other thing.
04:20And I think this is where fans start to really spin themselves into a million different directions.
04:27This locker room knows that they've started 5-3 with Deshaun.
04:33That is some sort of inequity.
04:35That is some sort of equity, rather, in that locker room.
04:39Everybody else says QB wins don't matter.
04:43It matters in that locker room.
04:44And so, even if they don't look at Deshaun as having the greatest season, even if they
04:50don't look at Deshaun as the future of the Browns, they look at Deshaun as a guy that
04:56has led them to a 5-3 record.
04:57This is why what happens at the end of OT and regulation yesterday does matter.
05:03If Shador hits that play, and I think it was Fannin was in the flat, Concepcion and Boston
05:12were over the top.
05:13If he hits one of those guys for the game-winning play, that might have done enough to light
05:20people up in that locker room and say, we can win with Shador, too.
05:23Yeah, it might be.
05:24But that is the difference between winning that game and losing that game, because five
05:29times previously, Deshaun has won that exact same game.
05:33And you just got to be honest with yourself.
05:34And again, you guys know how I feel about Shador.
05:36Did I think he was going to make the two-point conversion?
05:38I did not.
05:39And we've had spots this year where Deshaun Watson has been in that same instance, as
05:42you highlight.
05:43He's been in that same moment where you're like, all right, he needs the drive.
05:45He needs the play.
05:46He needs this.
05:47And I've had belief in Deshaun Watson getting that job done.
05:49That's a marked difference right there.
05:51And it doesn't mean that Shador's season is over and he, no, none of that stuff.
05:56But it does mean for this next week, I'd go back to Deshaun.
05:59Now, can I, I don't know if this is going to be an unpopular, I was about to set it
06:02up
06:03as let me share an unpopular opinion here.
06:05I have no idea if it's unpopular or not.
06:08Mike Rutenberg crapped the bed at the end of regulation and overtime.
06:12Oh yeah.
06:12I mean, the story and what I had played out in my head in the fourth quarter at many different
06:16parts was going to be, wait, wait, wait, Chador had this to, to play with as far as his touchdown
06:22was concerned at that point and his passer rating and everything in between.
06:25And also had a comeback win and a game winning drive.
06:29I, it was by Spider-Man meme.
06:31Deshaun Watson, Chador Sanders, they're doing the same thing.
06:33They're accomplishing the same thing.
06:34Rudy didn't end up his end of the bargain there.
06:36One, I hate prevent defense coverage with a passion.
06:40If you just want to do bland vanilla coverages, you will get baked in the NFL.
06:44Tyler Shuck is an NFL quarterback too.
06:47Did you see what they were doing with the defensive line?
06:49Defensive line was just eating space.
06:51It looked like, uh, uh, it looked like the three, four defense where basically you're,
06:57you're three front linemen and maybe your edge guys are just there to make sure that the play
07:02doesn't break down.
07:03Um, if you were that afraid of Tyler Shuck at some point in this game, you could have just
07:07put a spy on him, especially late in the game.
07:09But basically telling those defensive linemen to not attack at the end of the game and
07:13in regulation, screwed you over for, it took away, it took away your best asset as a defense
07:19that isn't Carson Swessinger and basically made it incredibly easy for Tyler Shuck to
07:25get anything you want.
07:26Cause he was feeling no pressure.
07:27And then he was able to, and it was just, it was easy.
07:29It was pitch and catch.
07:29And that's on Rudy.
07:30That's not on those players.
07:31That's what pissed me off.
07:32Jim Schwartz would never do that crap.
07:34I now get to say it.
07:35You seem mad.
07:36You see, I can, I can tell you angry right now.
07:38I'm about to do it.
07:39Jim Schwartz would never.
07:40Okay.
07:40All right.
07:41I even pointed at you.
07:42I meant to point at the camera, but the point is I'm now pointing at both of you.
07:46I just kept thinking Joe Woods would.
07:47He would, he would.
07:49And then he would get very defensive if you brought it up.
07:51And did often.
07:52Yes, that's right.
07:52That is the weird part here where there are times where Mike Rutenberg does stuff and
07:56I'm like, okay, there's some Jim Schwartz to him.
07:59There's some, there's, there's a set on him, right?
08:02And then he does do some things that are Joe Woods, like some very cutesy, don't you know
08:07I'm a defensive coordinator stuff that I'm like, just win the damn game.
08:10Yeah.
08:11Just make it easier on yourself.
08:12And, and like, that is ultimately the, the offense.
08:16Okay.
08:17Three quarters of crap, uh, enough offense late to win.
08:20Right.
08:21But that at least is some sort, even if it looks different from week to week, I can rely on
08:26Casey to make a play.
08:27I can rely on Boston to make a play.
08:29I rely on Fannin to make a play.
08:30If your defensive coordinator is neutering your defense in the style of play in the name
08:35of prevent defense, that's way more concerning to me.
08:38A coach getting in the way of winning scare, especially when you're the whole logic of, of
08:44allowing the saints to have the ball first and OT was we trust our defense.
08:49That's a smart decision by Todd Munkin.
08:51Well, I thought the logic is, so, you know, second, you know what you have to do.
08:54No, no, it is.
08:55But part of that is based on, we're going to trust the defense to get a stop.
08:59And if they don't do it, then we know what we have to get, be it a field goal or
09:02be a
09:03touchdown.
09:03Right.
09:04So like there's at least I, which, how about that weird exchange between Catalan and
09:08Logan Ryan, uh, where Logan is like trying to convince him that they're not going to
09:13go for two if they score the touchdown and it's, and Catalan's like, I don't know about
09:17that one.
09:18He was so nice.
09:19He saved his guy so bad.
09:21What are we doing here?
09:22There was another one where I don't remember what it was about, but Catalan was like,
09:26well, we could just get back to the game.
09:28And I was like, all right, AC.
09:30He was protected him.
09:31Didn't hear the Nick Wilson, Jonathan Peterlin shout out.
09:34No, I actually thought it might come.
09:35I thought it might happen.
09:35The way that the game was following, the way that Catalan was kind of, Catalan cooking,
09:39uh, the way that it was, it was all kind of rolled together.
09:42Uh, one more thought on the defensive side of things.
09:44I, it's really a Tyler Shuck thought.
09:46I didn't realize he had wheels like that.
09:48I watched him play a decent amount.
09:50I've never seen him scramble the way that he scrambled there.
09:52Maybe I just missed a lot of it.
09:53I don't know.
09:54Uh, I did not, I did not realize he had that type of that, that part of his game.
09:59Yeah.
09:59He, he, he walks this weird line where I don't think of him as a running.
10:03It's like Daniel Jones.
10:04You don't think of him as a running quarterback.
10:06And the second you stop thinking him as a running quarterback, he will gas you beyond
10:11all belief.
10:11He was just taken off at certain spots and you're like, Oh no, there's another, there's
10:14another 10 yards by Shuck.
10:15But do you agree about the defense?
10:16Yeah.
10:17To me, that was all on Rudy.
10:18Yeah.
10:19Um, yeah, I mean, Chuck's still made some throws obviously, but yeah, it prevent defense
10:23in that spot is just a disaster.
10:24And let's go with Mark in Strongsville.
10:27Mark, welcome to the show.
10:28Hello.
10:29Um, just wanted to say the defense, the defense was terrible yesterday.
10:34I thought overall, um, the, they can't stop the run still.
10:40And the defensive backs are still looking, trying to break up the pass on the receiver.
10:46They aren't tracking the football like they should to try to make the interception.
10:50I was a defensive back at Mentor high school many years ago.
10:53And our defensive backs coach, the first thing he taught us when you're running in stride,
10:58you're checking over your shoulder to see where that football's going before it gets
11:02anywhere near the receiver.
11:03And you make a play on the football to try to go for the interception.
11:08So I don't know what the defensive backs coaches are teaching those guys, but that's
11:11not, the technique isn't there.
11:14Mark, were you a good defensive back?
11:16I did pretty good.
11:17Yeah, that's good.
11:18That's good.
11:18That's good.
11:19I'm always, I was jealous of people with wheels.
11:21I didn't have those.
11:22Yep.
11:23I mean, I, I got, I got a good amount of interceptions, but I didn't, you know, you
11:28know, I was actually better at, you know, tipping the pass away from the receiver.
11:32And a real ball hawk.
11:34That's because I kept my eye on the football.
11:36I wasn't trying to hit the receiver and not looking at the football to break up the pass.
11:41You have to go for the football.
11:42And they aren't, they aren't stopping the run.
11:45And on the offense, I think Judkins looks slow.
11:49I don't know if his, if he doesn't have the downfield vision to run off on the off tackle
11:52blocks or what I like to speed better of McLaughlin.
11:56I should, I think they should rotate the backs more.
11:58If they have to put, keep Samson in there more, I think they should do that as well.
12:03All right, Mark.
12:03We appreciate you, buddy.
12:05Thanks a lot, man.
12:05Take care.
12:06All right.
12:07They did give up only six points in three quarters.
12:09Yeah, no, for three quarters, it looked really nice.
12:11So I like, we're in a weird spot here where do I think the defensive linemen by and large
12:17over pursue?
12:19Yes.
12:20Yes.
12:20They are overly aggressive.
12:22Do I think sometimes that your corners get real cocky and walk the line of physicality
12:28and they probably should be called for DPI more and that that, that is part of it.
12:33Denzel Ward got away with a couple yesterday.
12:34And I kept thinking to myself, Mike, he just, he got away with that just because the refs,
12:38the refs give Denzel Ward some special treatment there.
12:40Also fair, but I think that's part of their defensive identity.
12:44So when the defensive coordinator neuters them and says, all right, now we're going to play
12:48soft batch cookie B defense, soft coverage, and your defensive line isn't going to go
12:53after Tyler Shuck.
12:54I think you really, really, that's not, that's not what this defense is geared to do.
12:59And I thought he took them out of that game, which is why a defense that had, was it nine
13:04points through the first three and a half quarters, all of a sudden gives up two touchdowns in the
13:10remaining 15 minutes of clock time.
13:11Well, and you saw in that final drive too.
13:13I mean, that's, that's a Lave right there in the big time play.
13:15That was what that was.
13:16That was on Campbell.
13:17And that was, it's one of those things where, yeah, it just becomes too easy for him.
13:21And then even in overtime, you'd expect something different in overtime.
13:23Didn't see it.
